There was this thread on BGG discussing "lineages" in Dragons Down. To sum it up; bad fantasy tropes regarding "humans with quirks" portrayed as evil and monstruous.
Here was my reply, I think yesterday:
It got removed because it's apparently disruptive.
Now, I'm making great efforts to try to adopt different perspectives than mine, to be welcoming to other cultures and to all people, to hunt down my biases, and to root them out when dealing with other people, etc. It's not easy, I cannot claim that I am always successful, but I try.
Yet, clearly, BGG still thinks I am a racist and I am concerned. I really want to comply with the values of tolerance I believe in.
I would appreciate any help in highlighting to me why the above is problematic so I can hopefully work on it.
I was also banned, for saying that calling the frog on the original cover of "Tournament Fishing" was racist is stupid. I agreed to not use "provocative language" again, but won't apologize for what I said. They told me "Then we have nothing to discuss.", and that was that. They've become self-righteous and egotistical in the last few years. Ah well, I don't need to be a member to see the games ratings, which is the only thing I really use them for anyway. I'm proud to be grouped in with Phil Eklund, you, and others. I've been bullied most of my life, the best way to deal with bullies is just walk away.
Thanks so much for chiming in, all of you. You really don't realize how much it means for me to read your thoughtful (and very supportive!) replies. I love interacting with the ST people and reading what you have to say so, really, you couldn't make me happier!
I'm not one to look too much into the reasoning of moderation on bgg (I have enough headaches as is). However this reminds me of a parallel why I kept telling people that while I love slavic mythology and many other mythologies, they have one flaw. They demonize (literally) what people back then didn't understand and thus feared. For example children with defects were considered under evil influences and it wasn't uncommon to see them burried alive just because of this perception.
What's curious though is that some of these trends keep being perpetuated into the fantasy realm where nobody questions them anymore, cause it's "normal", or "part of that world". And we don't have to go far, cause here's witcher.
Of course I'm not blaming anyone for liking these worlds and not really thinking too hard about it. But if you do think about it, it can make your skin crawl. I think the fact that it's "fantasy" creates a bit of a barrier between people and what is depicted. Yes, it's based on true mythology and people really treated as evil anything they didn't understand. But it can become a bit twisted in said fantasy world to really depict evil nature, because that's the lens that created said fantasy world. They tend to be a bit more black and white than real life.
Talking about Tolkien being racist, I have no clue, I didn't look too much into it. I know Lovecraft was actively racist, but that's another matter. However talking about Tolkien's work, the reason the Orcs were depicted as "evil" was basically baked through how they "first came to be". Tortured elves that went mad and turned into orcs. The premise was that not much was left of their past selves, because of all the pain and torture they endured. Of course to what extend this might matter, who knows. Similar to psychological illnesses, it might be possible for orcs to be good, especially since they now breed in a different way and aren't created by torture any longer. But that's not really explored in the books, cause most of it revolves around the "noble" races and evil influences (Morgoth, Sauron, Saruman) or you know... war. And war doesn't show anyone in a good light.
I myself kinda avoid these discussions, cause I was called intolerant before (not racist, but it's similar). I think there is a difference in cultures. I'm not going to pretend there's no racism in Europe (ha, far from it), but I think it's still different than what for example US is experiencing and it's very hard to navigate the cultural difference. There's a word of "positive discrimination" around here and it's a bit of an issue and it does result in some bad blood. But it's nothing like when I hear from US people being negatively discriminated their whole life just because of their looks. For generations. And I'm sure I made some blunders that offend people even writing this. It's just such a sensitive and volatile topic these days that benefit of a doubt is hard to come by (I found).
To get back to your post, I don't know how it is disruptive, but I'm from the same cultural background (well similar, I'm not from France, but it's still Europe). I wouldn't take it as offensive or anything like that, more like something that can perpetuate further discussion. So yeah I'm not helpful, sorry.
Sorry, I missed your post during my vacation. I understand how frustrating this must be for you. And even when I / we say, please don't take it too hard - it hurts. You're not the only one of course to whom this has happened, also not the only one here at Solitaire Times. Unfortunately, I can't help you understand. In the end only the BGG moderators can and I am not sure you'll get an answer.
You might ask someone you know from the USA who is active on BGG as I think often us Europeans are not very knowledgable about the sensitivities across the ocean. Our cultures differ too much.
Personally I just stay away from most discussions on BGG. I realise that your thoughts would be a good contribution to the topic. But personally I just don't want to get hurt. It's not very brave, but I am having a better time now that I only sporadically post on BGG and then just harmless trivia or session reports. 🤷
Thanks for your support, all of you, but I still genuinely wonder which reasoning may lead to banning a comment stating that, according to their fictional creator Tolkien, Orcs are bad because they embody a moral quality and therefore have nothing, nothing, nothing to do with a different "kind" of human, so any parallel with the diversity we find in humankind is void if we stick to Tolkien (things may be different with D&D, they definitely are with the Elder Scrolls).
Really, how can this be deemed racist or problematic? It's not about adding nuance to the discussion or whatever. I am really at a loss to understand why some moderator might find my comment possibly problematic. I just want to know what it is I am overlooking in my own thoughts that can be felt or interpreted as "edgy" by someone. It bugs me not to understand. A lot. Like when there is a game everyone loves and you just can't see why. It's not a big deal, it's not a judgment made on you, but you can help to wonder: "What's wrong with me? what did I miss?"
It's not getting under my skin. I care little about what a BGG mod may think of me. But I care about meaning and how one's words may be interpreted, and since my words are interpreted in a way I just can't expect or apprehend, I feel intellectually frustrated.
Z, I don't really know you, but from what I gathered over time, labeling you as a racist is absurd, preposterous, and outrageous, to name a few. Not surprisingly, I feel you're taking a more profound approach to analyzing this. I look at it more simply. Some of the BGG Moderators are whiny, woke little pukes - it's as simple as that. You could say it 'out loud' and get kicked-off BGG, or under your breath, just say, "Go f**k yourselves, you pathetic babies." I can't believe the shit people whine about these days. 😖 I can picture the Moderators wearing buttons informing others what their pronouns are. Anyway, IMHO, you've done nothing wrong, and trying to use logic and/or reason to understand their stance is futile. 🙄
Zerbique, I found your reply nuanced and trying to bring a interesting insight into the conversation. As we all know, unfortunately, internet (forums) do not react well to nuance. Why they only react well to whoever shouts the most, is still a mystery to me.
I hope you don't let it get under your skin 💛
Sorry, Zerbique. The best thing I would like to say is that I applaud you looking within yourself and seeking if there is room for correction. None of us are perfect. We can strive to correct ourselves but are not responsible for the faults of others. On a personal note, I am biased to take your side because as long as I have followed you on social media I consider yourself a kind and polite individual even in the rare event I may disagree with you. The best compliment I can say to you is that you would make a worthy rival, because you are a gentleman in your approach on and off the "battlefield" of polite discourse. No, I do not think you are worthy of any negative publicity based on your actions but rather I say wear your approbation from others less open-minded as yourself as a badge of strength (not pride) so that you may steel your resolve in the pursuit of justice and wisdom in all things. Others have yet to find their way, as we all ourselves must do, and we should not judge those who may take a longer path towards enlightenment than our own.