I've said before that since getting into the gaming hobby, I've found the gaming community to be so much fun and (mostly) positive. Granted, not everywhere can be as welcoming and accepting as ST, it still surprised me this morning reading comments on a review on BGG.
A person posted a nice, quick review about Scythe and I enjoyed it. Simple, to the point and they gave it a 9/10 rating because they loved it so much. Now I know what you're thinking, "Derek's biased towards Scythe anyway" LOL Yes, this is true, but it was still ridiculous!
One user chimes in saying how unbalanced the game is and claiming this person who wrote it "must've only played once". Another user replies, fairly calmly I thought saying that he loves the game and everyone has their own opinions about it. As I read more, the initial "ray of sunshine" continues to press his/her feelings of the game being "so unbalanced", as well as another "rainbow of hope" tossing in his/her negativity. The entire comments section was filled with nothing about this person's review, but a back and forth between people who obviously don't like the game, and those who do.
I've heard (like everywhere online I guess... except ST mind you) that there was negativity on BGG sometimes, but I have felt lucky in the year and a half I've been on there to have not run across this kind of thing. It's refreshing to know that I can start my mornings with nothing but positivity and enjoyment. It makes me even more sad that it's one of my favourite games that's infilrated with the negativity, I might add.
WHY WHY WHY???? Why do people have to do that?? My comment (after also telling the reviewer I enjoyed their review - since no one else said anything about it), was that hopefully people will stop reading reviews of games they dislike. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. If you dislike a game so much, why are you on that game's forums/reviews???
Just my two sense. I'm sorry to rant here at ST but I know people here will support my thoughts here because WE know how to keep things positive!!! (As I write a negative post LOL)
If you feel like ruining your morning, here's the link to the "conversation"....
Yeah, BGG has a lot of dickheads (hey, the spell-checker was okay with dickhead - 😄).
Image Source: LondonCityGirl.com
I suppose it's a bit like criminal populations in very large cities vs. in Mayberry R.F.D. All about percentages, I guess. BGG has a lot of members vs. ST, so there's gonna be a shit-load more jerks there, which there clearly are. I had a "run-in" with one a while back. We were goin' back and forth, with the Moderators Athena mentioned deleting various Posts in the Thread (at their lame discretion). I think I eventually 'won' the battle, as the aggressor/bully finally backed-off, after I beat 'em down with Spock-like logic. 😀
@Derek and @Gloomknight I laughed when you were talkin' (or almost) to your wives about a noteworthy game battle, and they weren't quite grasping the significance of it. When I'm telling my GF about a cool game, she politely listens (while giving me what I perceive to be a placating look) as I suspect she's thinking, "Do you really think I give a shit about it?" 😀 But I keep telling her anyway. 😄
I'm all for opinions, as long as they align with mine. LOL! Bur seriously, varying opinions often make me reevaluate mine - Oh, I hadn't considered that, etc.
I agree with Athena about that stuff affecting our mood. On the occasional times I watch the news (always too depressing), I'm droppin' F-bombs out loud half the time. Shit other people say affects me, as I'm thinkin' "What a f**king idiot". They probably think I'm the idiot (which I may be), but it still raises my blood pressure when I'm exposed to what I consider morons (BGG moderators would seriously dog me (probably ban me) for using 'idiot' or 'moron' - what a bunch of pathetic babies - you may have noticed that 'political correctness' makes me wanna puke 😄).
See? I knew everyone on ST "gets it". I agree, reading different opinions is totally cool. And you're right @JW, that's exactly my point! It's HOW those opinions are shared that is the issue at times (like this thread that ruined my morning).
Kind of what's being said, I'll say again - If they don't like the game so much, why are they even looking at forum posts about it??? Answer: To stir up negativity and trouble. That's the only reason I can come up with. 😣
ST is perfect proof of how just being good humans and sharing your opinions in a non-judgemental or attacking way can allow people to share their thoughts, and still respect and enjoy the conversation and opinions!
Thanks for commenting everyone. This is great!
First of all, Stonemaier Games has a cult-like following that can see no wrong, and a group of haters that think the company only makes mediocre-at-best games. That's why I keep a bit from the forums there, as I'm not interested in the opinion of either group. So I haven't read the thread.
Second, this is a game with asymmetric player powers, and I guess that makes it hard to balance. There were two playermat/faction combinations "banned" by the designer after release as experienced players turned out to have too easy a time playing with them. Now, I think this is perfectly normal. A lot of games have errata, FAQ's, updates and revisions - you can't cover everything with playtesting. But other combinations were not banned, even though the designer was willing to do so, if somebody would be so kind as to give some proof. When no one comes forward, I think the complaining could stop after three years.
A game can be unbalanced, by design (I'm pretty sure this happens in wargames - or I just suck) or by oversight, and it usually is no big problem. Because you know exactly what you're up against, and will have adapt and adjust your strategy. But a lot of games aren't unbalanced. Or even luck based. With many, many, multiplayer games, experienced players will beat beginners. They adapt to the situation, they adapt to the strategy of others.
Now you're here among solo gamers. So in the end, who cares about balance. The game is loved by a large part of the solo community. It was a top-5 game in the solo top-100 from 2017 on, and last year still #8. That is quite a feat.
Oh well, of course your post was not about the arguments but about the inappropriate place for this particular discussion and the way it went on and on. Yeah, that happens. Count your blessings. At least the discussion was still game-related.
Yeah, some people on BGG are just plain jerks (I mean, at certain occasions at least). I won't give names, but I enjoy the possibility to "hide" a user's posts. I have a few on my blacklist...
As for negativity... I'm a great proponent of negativity (but also, I'm French). I think we need negativity. If my love for a game cannot sustain a few well-aimed criticisms, then it means I'm deluding myself somehow. If I truly love a game, I just don't care what negative things people can say about it. And the easier I can dismiss these, the sure I am of my own tastes.
Besides, it's very difficult, when you're looking to find info for a game, to only find positive to overenthusiastic comments, everywhere, for every game. I like to see discording voices because it depicts, as in a pointillist painting, a much more accurate vision of what the game is.
Third, I have found some people being very harsh towards negative reviews. You can praise a popular game "for free" and every one will applaud, but if you want to utter a criticism, some people will hunt you down, and demand (yes, demand) justifications for what boils down to be subjective feelings. I've seen this a lot on the Root forums, and now for the Oath forums.
Finally, should people who dislike a game subscribe to that game and lurk on its dedicated forum? I would say yes, if only because of point 2. But some people feel betrayed by a game. They had loved it and then the bubble popped, and they felt let down. They need to communicate about it, and their experience is interesting. They add a new tone, a new thread to the narrative. I think it's important that they contribute as well to the community, because they have a history with that game, and this history is part of the community.
Like Gloomknight, I am interested in reading differing opinions, as long as they aren't offensive, and I'm annoyed when moderators step in and delete comments they don't agree with.
I see drama on BGG quite frequently, Derek, I don't know how you managed to remain blissfully unaware. 😄 It can actually affect our mood, though, so whatever you were doing, keep doing it. 😄
As far as negativity, and getting back to the topic at hand 😉, I truly do enjoy other’s opinions on games even if they don’t share my sentiments. My reasons for this are numerous. 1. Does the person share my initial excitement?
2. Do they find it more challenging then me? If so, why?
3. What aspects feel lacking? What could be used to improve the game?
4. The simple joy in knowing we are all unique. Person A loves deck-builders, but despises engine-building. Person B loves lightweight vs. heavyweight games. Etc., etc.
I can read on and on as to why people have their pros/cons as long as it does not turn toxic or demeaning to anyone.
I played Scythe as a whole probably about 6-8 times. Not as much some people around here 😉, but definitely enough to form my own opinion. I really enjoyed the game, but found it quite challenging once I made the transition from easy to normal mode vs. the AI. It’s from this moment (after about 3+ plays on easy and then 3+ on normal that I found the AI really forces me to consider my actions to the point where I find myself playing a tighter game and I am no longer having fun. To this end I created some of my own variants (something I am loathe to do, as I am usually a sucker for the base rules in most games). This worked to some extent but I still feel the pressure of the AI forces me into a box as I am constantly reacting to its decisions rather than playing how I want. I understand the concept to “try harder and improve my methods” but I feel like there could be more levels of challenge, and that somewhere in there is a fun game that will not just rip me to shreds but that I can actually have a chance of winning without playing at my most optimal level. In fact, that is what I seek to achieve with this game, finding that proper balance where the AI is not too easy to overcome nor too punishing to the point that I can make a couple of less effective decisions while still playing a nail-biting competition up until the end. For the record, in my opinion easy mode is not “too easy at all“ but actually quite hard, and normal mode feels like a punch to the gut! Maybe it’s me, but again some variations in AI behavior can definitely help in this regard. From that perspective, this game is definitely a keeper. I plan on trying out that Bingo variant that Derek suggested, or maybe tweaking the rules on my own to find that sweet spot between challenge and fun.